TOPIC: Desi Bosses

Anyone ever had a desi boss? Did you find that they were good or bad? Did they micromanage and say mean things like they do back home?

ask those who baby sit or cook in indian homes....pathetic behaviour to say the least.

We cannot generalize. Everybody is different.

I totally agree that desi bosses are bad, I have had 2 bad experiences. One was in a desi company (go figure), other was in a big corporation. Every 2 hrs he would come over and ask for updates.
Moral of the story - I wont work for desi bosses again.

Guess what, when you become a boss in future, try to be a role-model to desis who report to you. or else someone here on AT will be quoting the same for you too

Also, are you able to select who your boss should be - that would be something

Agreebadbosses wrote: Moral of the story - I wont work for desi bosses again.

Technically, it's called parenting - you don't baby-sit your own children

desi employee wrote: ask those who baby sit ....

It would be great to select your own bosses! I agree, most cases vary but I have heard so many bad things about desi bosses from desis and nondesis alike.

The principle of having to manage your boss is called "leading up"

Don wrote: Anyone ever had a desi boss? Did you find that they were good or bad? Did they micromanage and say mean things like they do back home?

Everybody is good, whether good at being good or good at being bad. You can even be perfectly good at being bad. Weird? See what Rihanna has to say about it:

Moral of the story: All desi bosses are good. Feeling better?

Agreebadbosses wrote: Every 2 hrs he would come over and ask for updates.

What a slacker! He should have done it more often.

Its tough to be a Manager. Desi's love to be Managers. Lets see we can help those who are Managers and aspiring to be Managers. I feel communication, delegation and giving feedback are some of the things that are hard for a Desi Manager. I feel it is due to the culture and we can improve on them.

1. Communication - We hate to communicate the bad news. Parents and Teachers reacted big when we communicated bad news to them. Did you get whipped (hit) when told about bad grades in India? What would you do next time?
2. Delegation - Being an hierarchical society, Manager has to feel that he is in control. Also, We want to do everything ourselves, just watch Hero in any movie - he can dance, fight and romance all in a single song. That may answer why Desi Boss checks every 2 hours.
3. Giving Feedback - We hate to tell them when they are wrong. We assume the other person will understand and straighten up. In fact we try to tell indirectly and mess up things more. The better way should be to lay out the issues and ask why it happened. Allow the person to talk and discuss how to avoid it in future.

I am sure others will have different opinions and I like to hear them.

Satish,

You are right.

Add inferiority complex, insecurity and desire to be popular in the plate. In general desis like to criticize and cannot stand anyone doing good work. Hyper criticism and being cynical does not help much. And when it comes a subordinates becoming popular, Desi managers feel very insecure. Also this tendency is more towards desi employees.

satish wrote: Its tough to be a Manager. Desi's love to be Managers. Lets see we can help those who are Managers and aspiring to be Managers. I feel communication, delegation and giving feedback are some of the things that are hard for a Desi Manager. I feel it is due to the culture and we can improve on them.

1. Communication - We hate to communicate the bad news. Parents and Teachers reacted big when we communicated bad news to them. Did you get whipped (hit) when told about bad grades in India? What would you do next time?
2. Delegation - Being an hierarchical society, Manager has to feel that he is in control. Also, We want to do everything ourselves, just watch Hero in any movie - he can dance, fight and romance all in a single song. That may answer why Desi Boss checks every 2 hours.
3. Giving Feedback - We hate to tell them when they are wrong. We assume the other person will understand and straighten up. In fact we try to tell indirectly and mess up things more. The better way should be to lay out the issues and ask why it happened. Allow the person to talk and discuss how to avoid it in future.

I am sure others will have different opinions and I like to hear them.

I think Manager/Employee relation is a two-way street. No way you can put all the blame on any one party. Both have to understand that they are working for "a company" and they have distinctive roles and responsibilities to play for individual and team's success. The manager should not be under the impression that the employee is working "for him/her".

The people dynamics are little more complex when this relation is amongst desis for many reasons - some of which have already been stated - primarily the hierarchical society, Manager has to feel that he is in control - more than control - the manager wants to show-off his/her authority.


Some of the things that worked really well in my favor in both roles are stated here:
1. Sincerity, Trust/faith - Be sincere & have trust/faith - if someone calls in sick, trust them. No harm in getting upset over things that are not in your control.
2. The manager is only as good as his/her team's performance.
3. Effective Manager gets the work done, rather than doing by everything by self. The person who tries to do everything by self is *not* a manager.
4. Set Realistic Expectations.
5. Open, Honest & Regular Professional Communications. Social communications about new gadgets, kids schooling etc should not bias an professional decisions.
- Regular Comm: Set & discuss the responsibilities/goals/expectations upfront. Monthly works better with newer employees & Quarterly works best once a rapport has been established.
- Open & Honest Comm: Review and provide timely feedback on the goals/objectives. Always appreciate the good work honestly & sincerely. Don't sugar-coat any slack - it'll bite you in future. Give a chance to the employee to present themselves for any shortcomings. Layout an action plan to overcome any shortcomings. Unless you are reasonably critical, the employee will never be challenged to grow and will never come out of his/her comfort zone (cocoon).
7. Understand, respect that all desis are intelligent & smart. There's a distinction between smart & over-smart. Give them the flexibility & space to prove their smartness. If and when they fail, help them.
8. Keep distinct boundary between social & professional relations.

Then there's 80/20 rule. As a manager, spend 80% of your time on those employees that need help and only 20% on the stars of your team.

Although, I generally follow the 20/80 rule. I'll rather spend only 20% of my time with the weak-links and 80% of my time with the superstars of the team but that's the philosophy I follow which I learned from my mentor.

One of the comment made that my manager checks on me every 2 hours.

This is a classic case of mistrust. Either the manager does not trust the employee is capable of getting the work done & meeting the commitments or employee has not been made aware of the expectations. In this scenario, the trust has to be built. The manager should feel comfortable that once a task is assigned to an employee that he/she will deliver it on time and if there are any red flags it will be raise at an appropriate time not at the time of delivery.

Work with the manager and ask about any deadlines upfront to prevent any surprises. Prove them that you can deliver what you promise. The manager will soon leave you all alone!

Let us get out of books and talk something real.

sanjus wrote: I think Manager/Employee relation is a two-way street. No way you can put all the blame on any one party. Both have to understand that they are working for "a company" and they have distinctive roles and responsibilities to play for individual and team's success. The manager should not be under the impression that the employee is working "for him/her".

The people dynamics are little more complex when this relation is amongst desis for many reasons - some of which have already been stated - primarily the hierarchical society, Manager has to feel that he is in control - more than control - the manager wants to show-off his/her authority.


Some of the things that worked really well in my favor in both roles are stated here:
1. Sincerity, Trust/faith - Be sincere & have trust/faith - if someone calls in sick, trust them. No harm in getting upset over things that are not in your control.
2. The manager is only as good as his/her team's performance.
3. Effective Manager gets the work done, rather than doing by everything by self. The person who tries to do everything by self is *not* a manager.
4. Set Realistic Expectations.
5. Open, Honest & Regular Professional Communications. Social communications about new gadgets, kids schooling etc should not bias an professional decisions.
- Regular Comm: Set & discuss the responsibilities/goals/expectations upfront. Monthly works better with newer employees & Quarterly works best once a rapport has been established.
- Open & Honest Comm: Review and provide timely feedback on the goals/objectives. Always appreciate the good work honestly & sincerely. Don't sugar-coat any slack - it'll bite you in future. Give a chance to the employee to present themselves for any shortcomings. Layout an action plan to overcome any shortcomings. Unless you are reasonably critical, the employee will never be challenged to grow and will never come out of his/her comfort zone (cocoon).
7. Understand, respect that all desis are intelligent & smart. There's a distinction between smart & over-smart. Give them the flexibility & space to prove their smartness. If and when they fail, help them.
8. Keep distinct boundary between social & professional relations.

Then there's 80/20 rule. As a manager, spend 80% of your time on those employees that need help and only 20% on the stars of your team.

Although, I generally follow the 20/80 rule. I'll rather spend only 20% of my time with the weak-links and 80% of my time with the superstars of the team but that's the philosophy I follow which I learned from my mentor.

One of the comment made that my manager checks on me every 2 hours.

This is a classic case of mistrust. Either the manager does not trust the employee is capable of getting the work done & meeting the commitments or employee has not been made aware of the expectations. In this scenario, the trust has to be built. The manager should feel comfortable that once a task is assigned to an employee that he/she will deliver it on time and if there are any red flags it will be raise at an appropriate time not at the time of delivery.

Work with the manager and ask about any deadlines upfront to prevent any surprises. Prove them that you can deliver what you promise. The manager will soon leave you all alone!

if someone calls in sick, trust them.

what if they don't sound sick on the phone?

Even doctors can't diagnose over the phone so why shd we be judgemental. give them the benefit of doubt, someone else might be sick at home. In the long-run, lies never pays-off. As and when the lies come out in the open, he/she will be ashamed of self.

As long as the deliverables are met as per expectations, the manager should be satisfied & happy. Also, as a manager, one should always buffer in the sickness, vacation, incidental time-off. you can't expect an employee to be working & healthy 365 days a week.

Sincerity & Trust/Faith was/is my Rule#1. It is very important for a healthy, productive team building to keep the skepticism out of the equation. Once the employee realizes this, he/she will be more relaxed & forthcoming with any issues and give more than 100% to his/her work.

Respect is always earned never demanded & the one of the ways to earn is to follow this Rule. There are other rules as well like lead by example etc.

Anonymous wrote:

what if they don't sound sick on the phone?

Well, I have both Desi as well as American bosses. I felt both the same. I feel 1: it depends on the company culture, 2: It depends on the attitude of the person. Partially it depends on us too. Let us ask ourselves a Q, are we giving respect to fellow Desi the same way we give respect to a white? How many of us trying to sell some Desi ideas to a White boss to control desi employees to please a white guy. In such situations, I don't find Desi boss being rude to desis, coz, there is no guarantee that we don't ditch this guy, so desi boss is making sure his butt is safe. Similarly, I had bad experience with fellow desi team lead who wants to get me out to bring his region guy in my place. It is all survival game to me. The winner is the real boss. But time will teach us and we will also have the same turn.

Cheers!!

I already mentioned these were some of the things that worked for me in either roles. Will it work for all? Surely not, Some situations are different and needs to be handled differently. There are thousands of books being written on this topic but sometimes it's the common-sense approach that works best in most situation.

Anonymous wrote: Let us get out of books and talk something real.

Regionalism: One more variable that makes the desi manager/employee relation complex. Good point.

Believe in Karma: If he/she gets you out, someone else will get him/her out too - what goes around comes around

Mr.Cary wrote: ...fellow desi team lead who wants to get me out to bring his region guy ...

sanjus wrote: ... someone else might be sick at home.

yes, possible. but then the employee must claim that he/she is taking time off to take care of the sick and is not sick himself/herself.

As long as the deliverables are met as per expectations, the manager should be satisfied & happy.

Usually it doesn't work that way, even though we all believe that it should. People usually get paid by the hour and if completing work is the criteria, they will start factoring more sick time in their estimates and commit to time frames that take twice as much time.

Also, as a manager, one should always buffer in the sickness, vacation, incidental time-off. you can't expect an employee to be working & healthy 365 days a week.

More cost to the company



what you have listed are the obvious. the art of managing people is to convey to them that their actions are being watched, their good work is appreciated/rewarded, their health and family time is respected and that their lies are being verified